Pro Dummers Experience

[S.P]

Hey Guys,

Lately, I have again been worrying about my future. Right now my plan was to go to the Sydney conservatorium. But it is very hard for me to know if i am ready as all i do is play in my room and i've played live twice with my band which i hate anyway. And the only other place i play at is at my drum lesson.I have basically..appart form my non drummer friends and my teacher who is emotionally and economically tied to me..no opinion on how good i am...because that there is a certain objective factor in terms of talent and level of ability on the drumset which can more or less be judged

I asked my teacher to give me his honest thoughts about me wanting to become a pro and he said that firstly, he thought i needed to take practicing even more serisouly then nowm, but appart from that he said that i learn pretty quickly and that i have good ears and play for the songs well.

But then also, he suggested that i not think in the mind frame of "be a pro drummer" he said i should practice for myself and for my want to grow as a player. He also said that maybe since im lucky enough to have the opportunity that i should go to either P.I.T. or LAMA academy for a year then go to university to study something else. This is due to the fact that he says that there is a lot of competition in this business and not that many jobs. he also says that since its art, its very subjective and there are lots of extraneous factors which are not within my control that could easily affect or decide weather i can make a living playing drums. So he suggested i keep playing and keep taking lessons whilst studying another "normal" university course, but that i definetely leave hong kong ebcause the music scene is not one that will help grow to become a MUSICIAN, here its ALL about the ass kissing and NOTHING about the playing, that you guys can trust me on.

Anyways, i figured then...since what i want to be is a drummer. I was wondering if you all guys on here that do it for a living could share some comments about your experience of become a professional drummer.

When did you start playing?
How much did you practice at first or as you were developing?
Did you feel it was hard to get into the scene?
Do you feel there is opportunity to make a good living?

Anything at all!!!

In the end the most important thing is that i can play drums....not being a professional or something like that...so of course then lifestyle and stuff matters for me. i guess what is the deciding factor is am I prepared to go through what it takes and live the lifestyle of a profession as a drummer...or would i be happier in another profession and playing on weekends etc with the local crew...

you guys that have day gigs and then play some gigs on the weekend...how does this compare to playing professionally in the past?

Guys who have a day gig and just play on the weekends or in your free time but havent been professional drummers before, do you feel happy? Or do you feel like you always wanted to be a pro drummer?

Thanks a lot guys and i understand I may be asking of something too personal..but it would surely be of great great help!

Steve, I have never really heard you speak of why you don't play professional full time, i would be interested to know why that is!

Anything at all would help me, thanmks again guys

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 30, 2005 04:40 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font>

[elpatricio]

Why don't you post some recordings of your playing SP? You're guaranteed to get some really useful feedback and find out where you are at and what you need to work on.

I can't really give you advice aout being a professional at the moment as I am at the same stage as you, but I'm sure there are loads of guys that can here.

[S.P]

Yeah I wish i could too...im in the process of arguing with my parents for a new computer because i can't even transfer the video from my camera to my computer in real time due to the fact that the video lags whilst transferring.

My pc is a 1 ghz intel celeron:| with 120mb ram memory...and a measley 16mb built in alladin graphics card

although i did get upgraded to 80gb hardrive which is now full and added an additional 512mb ram the processor and graphics card just dont cut it! Plus its something like 4 years old alrady and when we bought it was already pretty crap...pentium 4 2.4ghz were out already when my dad bought this

I actually have some videos of me and my band playing a gig..they are only small clips and my playing is nothing flashy just basic 2+4 so i may get those on you send it

[djmuskateer]

Hey S.P, I've just read what I've written below and it all sounds very negative, sorry! Drumming is great, but the music bizz is hard! Anyway...

There are a lot of people on this board who can give you a lot better advice than I can. But my initial feeling from reading your post is - don't worry too much about your level of ability when making your decision. Once you're past a basic level (able to make a song feel good) then other factors will dictate your career path, not how much better you can be. That may seem mad but its true (in my opinion).

Firstly, you're having lessons, you're obviously intelligent (which'll show in your playing) and you're still young, so even if you aren't at a high enough level now you will be over time (depending, of course, on what type of music you play - not everyone can play Terry Bozzio compositions no matter how much they practice..).

But really, there are a huge amount of super-talented musicians out there who do not, and cannot, make a living from their talent. There simply isn't enough demand versus supply of good players. Equally, there are a lot of fairly average players who stumbled into a good situation and make a living (and of course get much better quickly becase they get to play all the time). Look at Will Champion from Coldplay - he's very good at what he does, but he'd only been playing a year when they recorded their debut album! He's fine, but he's not a talented drummer like some poeple on this board who have day jobs. He didn't think "I'm going to be a pro drummer", he didn't even want to be a drummer before Coldplay formed, and yet here he is a millionaire (and a steady gig..). You could probably beat him in a drum battle, but no one gets paid for that!

The main thing I would say (being someone who is training to be a careers advisor and someone who has considered playing drums professionally), making a living out of music depends more on being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, working very hard, ALWAYS being ready to take ANY opportunity, networking well and straight-out pure luck, than anything to do with how well you play (assuming you can hold a groove). You need fingers in many many pies to make a living in music, which means learning to play in all styles and having a good business brain too. Don't forget, around 80% of pro musicians are on the poverty line, 10% do okay, and 10% make really good money (those statistics are an educated guess). My Dad is a musician, and my parents didn't have me until they were fairly old becasue they couldn't afford to, he'd never had the right breaks. 10 years later he'd sold over a million albums, just because he'd overheard someone talking about an audition in the pub, and gone along himself! Right place, right time, ready for the opportunity, luck luck luck (and he had the talent to make it work, but really there is no direct ratio between his talent and success).

The drummers we idolise are super talented and successful because of how good they are. But 98% of working drummers we've never heard of, and they make their money not through chops and groove, but through playing 'Hi ho Silver Lining' and 'Mustang Sally' 4 nights a week, and then jazz for free beer on the weekend if they're lucky.

And one last thing - what pro musicians do more than anything else in their working life is wait around. On the poverty line its loading up the van, driving for 8 hours, setting up, waiting, gigging for an hour, taking down, loading up the van and driving for 8 hours. For the lucky few, its waiting at the airport, flying for a bit, waiting for your luggage, then waiting in hotels (without your family) until the gig starts, gigging for an hour then going back to the hotel.

Having said all that, if its your dream, go for it! But don't just practice your drumming, acquire all the other skills you need to survive too, not least optimism. And if it doesn't work, then having a day job and gigging at the weekend really isn;'t so bad - at least that way you never have to play any music you don't like. Becasue most musicans can never afford to say no to a gig. Music is so much fun, such a fantasticly positive and amazing thing to be a part of, it almost seems a shame to turn it into a job...

[DrumKit_Cat]

I think Muskateer has a lot of very important points in his post - but I dont' think his comments are negative as much as they are realistic - and that's an important difference. Like the saying goes, if it was easy EVERYONE would do it.

1. you do have to "have your finger in a lot of different pies and be able to play all sorts of styles of music to get ahead..."

2. you really do have to develop some good "survival" business skills - as my past drum teachers all told me about this; you can and should spend as much time networking and "shaking the bushes" as you do playing and developing your skills.

3. you do have to embrace the fact - and REALLY be comfortable with the fact that chances are you're going to live on popcorn from time to time in the name of making it full time... This point alone is what makes it daunting and near-impossible for anyone with a family to suddenly jump in full time without a solid network of contacts in place.

For me right now in life, I have an ex-wife, a child, a mortgage, car and bills out the arse...
but if I was single HELL yes I'd be out there all hours workin' it both on the drums and networking.

I make money these days through teaching, and session work, as well as playing gigs with bands - and doing some recording/production work; just not on a regular enough level to live on, sadly!

I appreciate where you're coming from, and I wish you the best.

Paul

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 30, 2005 07:52 AM: Message edited by: DrumKit_Cat ]</font>

[Riddim]

I'm not advocating gross financial irresponsibility, but my feelings are that if you're going to do this, you're going to do it. It's as simple as that. You'll do whatever you have to do to get where you want to be.

I think you'll find that that's something all of our heroes have done.

Don't worry about what you don't know. Information can be acquired. All you have to do is the work. Think about what you're going to learn, and how inspiring that will be. Just stick with it. Quitters never win and winners are too dumb to quit.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 30, 2005 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Riddim ]</font>

[Andy Edwards]

Hello SP

I have written some articles for my students here

http://www.andyedwardsmusic.com/articles.htm

have a read of the music business one and see what you think.

[S.P]

Indeed there are those two halfs to the pie (haha quite a lot of pie analogies) as has been shown so far. In one end its the you gotta worry about your living and all that sort of stuff....on the other end there is the go for it what the hell go for it even if you must endure the pain of being homeless or whatever it may bring with it.

Well i have a few video clips...shame that my bassists father (the bassist is on the far right) only decided to film snippets which included the beggining and end of my drum solo but not the actual solo and then procedeed to film his son singing for 3 minutes only focusing on him...but oh well it is his son and his camera, im happpy i just have something to check myself out on and make sure everything was ok. Nothing flashy here, this was at a festival in the benefit of the tsunami victims...

i didnt include the last song cos the singing is just disgusting haha..

here is the link...let me know what you think:

http://savefile.com/projects.php?pid=321917

[cjbdrm]

No one should have to encourage you to pursue a career in music- the drive has to come from within you.

Your teacher is right on all counts about the business. Also, the posts above are very informative.

I understand you're arming yourself with the information you need to make a decision...but at some point, something has to 'click' inside of your head- it's hard to describe- but the decision to pursue music can't be a tentative one.

My favorite quote regarding the music business comes from Omar Hakim. On success in the business he says that it's more about commitment than ability.

That's my point as well.

Everything you do that will help you become a successful musician depends entirely on your drive, determination, and commitment. How much you practice, study, whether or not you move somewhere, go to school, etc. The more driven you are, the more you'll practice. How much do you practice? You practice as much as it takes, then keep practicing. If I were to do it different, I would spend a little more time networking and less time practicing, because I've learned that it's more about how you get along with people than it is about chops.

When I was your age, this is how I felt(driven), and I 'went for it'. I took out student loans to go to school. I waited tables to pay the rent...I struggled, but I never gave up. I wanted to do it. I HAD to do it.

So...if you're not sure...don't do it. If you ARE sure, give it everything you got!

[S.P]

I understand this clicking thing...how something clicks...and i had this thing, or maybe not...because for a while now i was determined...but following the latest round of trying to convince teachers...who pretty much do care about me and they just want to me leave as many options open...their main focus is how can i figure out if i have the talent to do this...and they want me to get second opinions that are apart from teacher...i was so determined to go for it and not care what other people said...but that was easy to do when no one said anything...once i asked for honesty and had sincere talks with the people that matter...their doubt inevitable..no matter how much i try to ignore...looms in the back of my head..because these are people who i know care about me and i care abuot them and what they think. I mean my mum is supportive although as soon as i show a sign of doubt and talk about possibly doing something else for university she takes the offensive and tries to get me to stay with that.

My dad really doesnt agree...but said he would support me whatever i choose..

I guess right now the issue is, do i go to university to study music...or do i go to university and study something else...which wont mean i can't keep drumming and practicing and taking lessons and playing with people and do university thing on the side. I say do the university thing on the side bcause drumming will take the main "stage" or time.

CJb the points you make are valid about just going for it and basically not caring about anything else, but since there are sooo many external variables and the world is inevitably and unjust world....which means hard work wont necessarily = sucess especially in this business...is not smart to take pre-cautions? Because there are the people who say the people who take precautions are planning to fail and all that kind of stuff...but man...ahhhhhhh i dunno, do you get what i mean?

Btw no one has really spoken about their experiences and it would be very interesting for me to read....cjb what happened did u eventually give it up? Whats going on now?

I would love to hear from Chris Andy E Steve GAMG Michaud Rodge Andy V. i know you used to this for a living for a while too right? Vdrummer? Louie!? Gary H. and Ersko? any of your views n experiences when you were going through a time similar to mine would be greatly appreciated...and so will all honesty in opinion!

And anyone else who has done it for a while but then got a gig or the other way round!

edit: sorry andy didnt realise you had replied as you did it at the same time as me andd cjb before.....i'll check out the article now and get back to you....would you mean telling me/us a bit about how you got started drumming, how you felt and how you got into it professionally? was there a certain point in your life where u said right im going to strive to become one or did u just keep playing and not worry about that and it just sort of happened?

what about for the rest of you pros?

Edit: just read the article!! REally helpful and very interesting, its the kind of thing that comes up a lot in MD about promoting your band etc but i guess it hits you more when you sort of know the person who is writing and you know for a fact they write from experience! Thanks Andy!

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ November 30, 2005 09:27 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font></font>

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 30, 2005 09:37 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font>